In a world where fashion often serves as a surface-level connection, Fiona Luo and Michael Smith have found something deeper. Their shared love for Rick Owens, a designer known for avant-garde aesthetics and a dedicated underground following, led to an unlikely romance that transcended the runway. What started with a simple Instagram message turned into a partnership grounded not just in style but in mutual admiration, passion, and growth. Their story highlights the serendipitous nature of modern love, where fashion is more than just clothing—it becomes a bridge to shared values and a lifestyle.
FORM: Michael and Fiona, could you both share a bit about yourselves? Michael, I know you're a co-host on the Pair of Kings podcast, and Fiona, you work in PR. Could you tell me more about what you do?
Michael: Yeah! Day-to-day, I work primarily as a data scientist in television advertising, and I also co-host the Pair of Kings podcast.
FORM: It’s a very popular podcast. I know so many of my friends that listen to the Pair of Kings podcast.
Michael: That’s cool. It’s doing pretty well these days so that's good. It’s reassuring.
Fiona: Yeah! It’s getting more official. I do feel like a lot of people listen to it. I just don’t want Michael to sell himself short. I feel like Michael obviously has his day job but then he’s been working on the podcast with Sol Thompson the co-host and also creating content. Doing more Rick Owens content creation stuff in the last few months. As for me, I work in fashion PR. I work at this agency called Gia Kuan Consulting. I’ve been there for 5 years now. It’s actually my first job out of college, and I was the first employee of the agency. So it’s been really cool to work with Gia directly and grow to a bigger team. There, I work mostly within the fashion industry. I work with a lot of emerging designers in New York, and I also work on some beauty accounts as well. That has always been my passion to work within the industry, not necessarily on design. I always knew I was interested in media and culture, and thinking about brand building and how to strategize that and how to really bring up a brand into the culture, into the public space. It’s kinda what I get to do now, which is pretty exciting.
Fashion might have brought them together, but their relationship soon grew beyond mere admiration for Rick Owens’ designs. As Michael and Fiona found their footing in New York, they cultivated a community, made lasting connections, and grew their respective careers—Michael in data science and podcasting, and Fiona in fashion PR.
Photo: Dabe Alan
FORM: What Inspired your mutual admiration for Rich Owens?
Michael: Separate parts to the same end goal I guess. Because we met through our love of Rick Owens. So I went into all of that when I was in college. I dressed very preppy up until I figured out what Rick Owens was and then I kinda had a drastic shift in everything and got really obsessed with it for a long time and then about 5 years after I was into it I moved to New York and I met Fiona.
Fiona: I guess for me I really think the beginning of it all, the beginning of the end really was being on Tumblr. I really was like a Tumblr girl starting from like 2011. So I was pretty young when I first started going on Tumblr.
FORM: That’s the peak of Tumblr.
Fiona: Those were the days! I feel like I’m a thousand years old but those really were the days. I pretty quickly fell into the high fashion Tumblr space. Which I don’t know if you’re familiar with that time and with that space. I really learned so much about, not necessarily the industry, but I learned so much about designers and looked at so many runway pictures and kinda just like I was surrounded by so many people online who were really nerds about all of this. I just quickly became obsessed with the avant-garde brands like Margiela, Rick Owens, Ann Demeulemeester, and a lot of the Antwerp designers. I feel like just from there, it became the holy grail. I grew up in Beijing, China so I was on Tumblr looking at all this culture from afar, and not feeling like it was attainable for me in any way. China didn’t really have a fashion scene, or the fashion industry it does now.
High fashion Tumblr, popular in the early 2010s, was an online subculture where users shared runway images, editorials, street style, and fashion photography. It was known for its minimalistic, moody aesthetic, often centered around luxury fashion houses like Saint Laurent, Margiela, and others. The platform helped democratize fashion by allowing young enthusiasts to engage with high fashion without access to physical events. Influencers and tastemakers emerged from this scene, shaping online trends and the rise of internet-era fashion blogs. It also contributed to the blending of streetwear and high fashion, which later became mainstream.
FORM: I feel like China in itself is that girl.
Fiona: It really is. The fashion scene there is crazy but at the time growing up there, there was nothing. Then I moved to New York in 2016, I started to be able to buy a lot of these brands at non-retail costs, which was much more attainable. I was able to start wearing a lot of the designers that I really loved, and then I think as I was experimenting with all these different brands I’ve always felt such an affinity to, I really fell into Rick Owens because I think like from a personal perspective it just really fit me the best and made me feel the best wearing it. You feel really cool when you’re wearing Rick Owens. I fell into it and started more and more and trying to get more pieces cuz you know you have to wear it all together. I feel like we’ve talked about it before where you can’t just wear one Rick piece. I guess sometimes you can. You can’t just wear one Rick thing, you have to wear it all together. So it’s like you wear one thing, you have to buy another thing to go with the thing, then you have to buy another thing. And I kinda fell into it which is the reason why I met Michael.
Michael: Yeah. I was not on Tumblr. I got a lot of my fashion knowledge from 4chan surprisingly.
FORM: Let’s unpack that.
Michael: I mean, I was on 4chan in high school as a shithead kid, which is where you go to be a shithead kid in high school—at least, that’s how it was at the time. I eventually got into fashion through a friend who told me about Rick Owens. There weren’t really many forums or outlets for it. I mean, there was StyleZeitgeist or StyleForum, but I felt like the people there were too old for me at the time. It was mostly established people with real jobs who could afford stuff.
For some reason, though, the 4chan fashion board had a very dedicated Rick Owens thread that got remade every time it expired. So, there was just this group of people on that board. The rest of the site was terrible, but the Rick Owens thread was surprisingly good. One of my neighbors is actually someone I met through it. We all eventually left 4chan and moved to a Discord server around 2016, but from 2014 to 2016, I pretty much talked exclusively with my Rick friends through 4chan.
We moved over to Instagram. Fiona and I met through Instagram. A Rick Owens page reposted me and Fiona saw that and that’s the story of how we met.
Photo: Eli Meyer
Fiona: It’s almost like the accumulation of so many corners of the internet, that ended up bringing us together. It’s kinda crazy.
Michael: The Rick Owens discords are currently the only truly active places for that community now. Even the Instagrams don’t even really exist anymore.
FORM: That’s fair. Do you guys feel like the community is dying down? There was a big Rick boom during the pandemic when everyone was like, “Look at my Ramones.”
Michael: It’s still pretty big. Playboi Carti stopped wearing as much Rick and started wearing Balenciaga, so a lot of teenagers sold their Rick and bought Balenciaga instead. But it’s still a strong niche within fashion. To some degree, it’s played out in some people’s eyes. Wearing Ramones is still the same kind of meme it used to be—which doesn’t stop us, but you know...
FORM: The niche is so interesting, especially how the community migrates but stays strong regardless of trends. I read System Magazine Issue 19 a while ago, and it’s cool to be talking to you since this isn’t your first interview about your love story and its connection to the Rick movement. How did the System Feature come about?
Michael: The System feature happened because of a friend of mine who’s also in that interview. He’s a dedicated Rick Owens client with the money to back it. We’ve never really spent much on Rick ourselves—most of what we get is from deep sales or second-hand. One of our friends, who actually attends the Rick shows and everything, was asked to do the interview and find around 10 people from the community who’d be interested in participating. So, pretty much everyone in the interview is either a friend of ours or a friend of his that he brought together. We just happened to be friends with someone the Rick team reached out to.
FORM: Do you think the Rick community—or even the two of you—emphasizes collaboration? Is it a very collaborative community? And how do you both approach working together in that space?
Michael: I feel like everybody kind of knows everyone. At this point, it’s weird to see someone in New York wearing full Rick and not have at least some idea of who they are, because it’s not that common. Obviously, a lot of people wear it, but those who are really dedicated are probably online in some way, and I’ve probably seen them, or they’ve seen me. There’s always a bit of a connection. I don't know about collaboration, per se—we all just kind of hang out.
FORM: How do you two collaborate? Not in terms of magazines, but more on ideas—like helping each other, whether in your relationship or business.
Michael: Do we do that in a Rick centered way?
FORM: It doesn’t even have to be in a Rick centered way.
Fiona: Have you seen the Vogue video we did? It’s funny because a lot of the comments on that YouTube video—well, it’s YouTube, so there’s obviously going to be hate. But it’s amusing because many people seem to think our relationship is based solely on a shared interest in this one brand. Obviously, we wouldn’t still be together if that were the only thing holding us together. That may be how we met, but we’ve stayed together because we just happen to be two people who are really compatible. It’s something we talk about all the time—we’re both shopaholics, always thinking about shopping and asking each other what we should buy.
Michael: We’re not very good at telling each other no. Very rarely do we say “you don’t need that.”
Photo: Eli Meyer
FORM: What was the last item that you asked each other about?
Michael: It was yesterday.
Fiona: Was it yesterday or was it like 2 days ago?
Michael: 2 days ago I asked about a pair of shorts. Nothing crazy just denim shorts and I've been yelling about wanting smaller shorts all Summer. And a pair of denim shorts was like $75 and I was like “Hey! That’s cheap.” And Fiona was asking me about a dress.
Fiona: It’s about a black Kite dress. It’s not some insane holy grail, but it’s something I’ve wanted for a long time. I have one in gray, but black is the standard. I saw one on The RealReal and was like, “Hey! Should I get this?” And I feel like I was asking Michael, but I already—
Michael: She just wanted me to say yes.
Fiona: Yeah. [laughs]
FORM: I hope you bought it.
Fiona: I did. I did end up buying it.
FORM: You mentioned shopping mostly second-hand or at sample sales. How do you stay updated on fashion trends? Fiona, you work in PR, and Michael, though your day job is as a data analyst, you also have a fashion podcast. Do you follow trends as a personal hobby, or is it tied to your work as well?
Michael: I don’t know how well I actually keep up with trends. Not to say that I’m not getting outside influence on anything I do ever. I guess most of where I learn about trends is through Instagram, and any reason that I’m learning about them is probably podcast-related. I also discuss the current state of fashion. Fiona, I think, has more legitimate access to the world of fashion and has a more legitimate reason to know.
Fiona: I feel like even though I work in fashion, my whole lore and relationship with Rick Owens as a brand and my personal style are so removed from that. They’re almost completely separate things for me. I deal with trends and have to stay up to date about the industry for my job, but to me, that is so separate from my personal style. One reason I wanted to get into Rick and started wearing so much Rick is that I feel it excludes me from the conversation about being trendy or current. It’s just its own style. And it really is pretty timeless because it doesn’t follow any of the current markers of what’s trendy or what makes things cool, unlike other brands that have to stay on top of trends. With the runways and everything, there’s still a dialogue about how trends are moving currently. But because I wear this specific designer, I can wear something from ten years ago or from five or six years ago and still feel good about it and actually enjoy it. Whereas outside of this style, you really wouldn’t be able to do that; it would feel so outdated.
Michael: Rick’s been making the same thing for years.
FORM: There’s always continuity between collections. There’s always a linear connection.
Michael: And everything new that he does, or a few things, is also just a remake of something he did like fifteen years ago. There are very few truly new things—just remixes, basically.
FORM: Do you guys ever see your style evolving away from Rick or an avant-garde way of dressing?
Michael: A little bit. We don’t dress in full Rick all the time anymore—most of the time, about 90% of the time. But it’s not the only thing I own anymore, and it was never the only thing Fiona owned. These days, I mess around with some other styles—just a little bit here and there.
FORM: Like what?
Michael: I have a mild collection of Balenciaga stuff because I got into it four years ago—mostly because I had a friend who worked there, and it seemed like a fun thing to do. As I meet more people in the fashion industry, I’m discovering smaller designers that I really appreciate. Getting closer to the source and seeing the things my friends have made has been cool. I think branching out a little bit and trying to support my friends is great.
FORM: You mentioned something interesting that has come up with my friends in fashion. Over the last decade, we’ve witnessed two major snowball effects. It’s undeniable that Virgil Abloh was pivotal in merging luxury fashion with streetwear, and Rick is another designer who blends these styles effectively. Additionally, I think the second major effect is the convergence of luxury and independent designers, which are now almost equally relevant.
Michael: I think that’s also Virgil. The whole Virgil idea was, “Anyone can be a designer.” It was something he often talked about, and I think he was a big component in more and more people wanting to start brands, which is cool.
Fiona: I also think this fascination with emerging talent has been ongoing for some time, especially during my entire time working in PR, which works well for me as I represent a lot of these small emerging talents in New York. I think it’s due to the rise of the “if you know, you know” mentality. Everyone wants to be in on something; everyone wants to be the first to discover the next cool thing, the next cool designer, or the next big trend. That idea really fuels the media's strong fascination with emerging designers. Every editor and stylist wants to be the person to find that next big thing. There is such a thirst and hunger for it. This is happening simultaneously with traditional fashion publications and bigger celebrity stylists wanting to feature small designers with their high-profile clients. That almost feels like cultural currency and value. Placing a small New York designer on a big talent holds more cultural currency than putting them in a Dior, Valentino, or other luxury brand.
FORM: Touching on that, what do you think about celebrities like Virgil and Pharrell becoming creative directors of large fashion houses? Also, why do you think our generation has parasocial relationships with creative directors? I think these points are connected.
Michael: It depends. I believe anyone can be a designer, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be. Like in Ratatouille, where 'anyone can cook' doesn’t mean everyone should cook—it just means designers can come from unexpected places. Pharrell hasn’t done a bad job; he has a solid team and a rich archive to work with. As creative director, he has input, but he’s not designing every piece—and he doesn’t need to. I just think there’s probably some unrecognized talent out there who would love that job and do it really well. Pharrell will be fine.
FORM: There’s a common theme of lore in all of this. What drew you to Rick and the migration of online communities compared to independent designers who want to be part of something exclusive? This is a big part of underground culture—people want to be the first to know, gatekeep, or have layers within that community. I’m curious about what you think contributes to the allure of a brand’s lore and its community, whether it’s as big as Rick or a smaller client of yours, Fiona.
Fiona: think the reason our story is interesting and why people want to write about us, which I’m grateful for, is that it is relatable in some sense and in the right way within the fashion zeitgeist. We’re two people who grew up in these pockets of fashion subculture on the internet, found our partner online, and now work in the industry. There’s an aspirational allure to that, along with a sense of relatability—it’s like this could happen to you.
MICHAEL: Me and who?
FIONA: Literally, me and who? There are thousands, even millions, of kids on the internet every day doing the same thing with their fashion mood boards, stalking designers, and looking up runways—everything that we did too. We just happen to be two people who did that and somehow found each other while also being part of the industry. I think the same applies to independent designers. Many of them don’t come from wealth; sometimes they do, but often they don’t have traditional training or come from places where fashion designers usually originate. There’s a sense of relatability and aspiration in the idea that someone can come from an unexpected background and still become a fashion designer. I was just talking to Michael about Kiko Kostadinov. Before he became Kiko Kostadinov, he was known on the internet for his Yohji Yamamoto outfits. He was active on fashion forums, posting his outfits and gaining recognition for his excellent Yohji Yamamoto looks. And now he’s Kiko Kostadinov. I think it’s aspirational that someone can emerge from your internet subculture and become larger than life. This reflects the background of many in our generation who end up working in this industry.
Photo: Eli Meyer
FORM: If you think about how culture permeates music and fashion, from underground to mainstream, you can see the migration of certain types of music. Our generation witnessed a shift where some subcultures mirrored real life, while others originated online. For example, the underground culture of SoundCloud rap started online, allowing people with common interests to find each other, often in ways they might not have otherwise. Take Brockhampton, who met in a Kanye forum. It's fascinating to consider how our generation experienced the migration of culture from real life to online and then back to real life.
Fiona: It's really cool, even with your [Michael] friend group. Our neighbor, as Michael mentioned, is someone he met online and is now just our friend. We also have a backyard because we live in Brooklyn, and we host a lot of backyard BBQs and parties with the usual group of people—if not most—who you met online and now live in New York.
Michael: So much of our friend group is people from the internet that became real people basically.
FORM: How do you transition your friendships from a niche like fashion and Rick Owens to something more personal and meaningful that can transcend time?
Michael: You follow each other on the internet because of a shared interest, but there’s only so much you can discuss within that interest. None of us are particularly interested in spending our entire lives talking about Rick. While we do discuss it often, it’s not the main topic of conversation, and eventually, you start talking about other things—similar to how we make friends at work when we stop discussing our jobs.
FORM: When I spoke with Fiona in New York, we discussed how shared interests break the ice, but what truly resonates with someone are the core values or ethos behind those interests. I asked her what aspects of the brand resonate with her and Michael, considering how these shared traits can also apply to friendships and community beyond just that brand. Ultimately, if people are drawn to anything, it often reflects the shared traits and values associated with it.
Fiona: I think people who like Rick are valid because, to be into Rick, you have to be unconventional in your general values and pretty progressive.
Michael: That’s not always true.
Fiona: I think that's relatively true, don't you? Considering the subject matter and the themes associated with the brand, you have to be pretty comfortable with some political ideas to be into it.
Michael: Kind of. I’ve met quite a few people who are not.
Fiona: I guess that’s true, too. Then there’s the aspect of the internet and how there are some pretty scary parts of it.
FORM: Rick 4chan is scary.
Michael: 4chan is scary. The Rick segment of 4chan was surprisingly nice. However, I think we just live in a little New York bubble, so everyone we meet is generally a good person in that sense.
Fiona: Why would you even be into this brand?
Michael: I don’t know. I ask myself often.
FORM: Would you ever consider moving out of New York, even though you have a community there?
Michael: I don’t think it’s on our mind anytime soon. I think we’re pretty New York stable.
Fiona: Maybe down the line, I would love to move back to Asia because that’s where I’m from, and I feel like there are more opportunities and creative communities in Asia nowadays. That’s not in our near future, but it is in our long-term plans.
FORM: What are your hobbies outside of your daily lives and your involvement with Rick and fashion? Do you play games or watch movies? If so, what kinds?
Michael: I’m really into board games and often host board game nights. Most of the Rick and other fashion kids are generally pretty nerdy, so we have a lot of fun playing games together. I'm also into long-distance biking to some extent, and I enjoy Legos.
Fiona: Michael knows all the nitty-gritty, nerdy details. He can read the labels of Rick pieces and know exactly what year they were made, along with everything else. One day, I was talking to him and realized that Rick Owens is his model trains.
Michael: And it used to be lego.
Fiona: I watch a lot of reality TV. I watch a lot of Real Housewives.
FORM: Which one is your favorite series?
Fiona: Previously, I only watched Potomac and Salt Lake City. Salt Lake City is really good; it’s the easiest city to get into because it’s the shortest and quite juicy. I recently started watching Beverly Hills, which is really, really good. I feel like I’m somewhat of a workaholic, so I don’t really have hobbies outside of work. However, I genuinely enjoy what I do. I’m very interested in culture, and I love being in New York, even though I’m not from here.
In a world where finding genuine connections can be challenging, Luo’s and Smiths story is a reminder that sometimes, the most meaningful relationships can start in the most unexpected places. What began with a simple follow on Instagram has blossomed into a partnership filled with shared experiences, mutual growth, and an unwavering commitment to each other. And while their love story might have Rick Owens as its backdrop, it’s the depth of their connection that truly defines their relationship.
At its core, the story of Fiona Luo and Michael Smith is about more than just fashion—it’s about connection, community, and the values that tie us together. As they navigate their careers and continue to shape the fashion world in their own unique ways, their partnership stands as a testament to the power of shared passion. Whether discussing Rick Owens, sharing laughs over podcast episodes, or collaborating on creative projects, their relationship is a blend of authenticity, style, and a deeply rooted bond that, like the timeless pieces they admire, will always remain relevant.
Words: Soukita Morgan (@bysoukita)
Michael Smith (@_smithstagram)
Fiona Luo (@__fionaluo)
Pair of Kings Podcast (@pairofkingspod)
